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The information on Groklaw is not intended to constitute legal advice. While Mark is a lawyer and he has asked other lawyers and law students to contribute articles, all of these articles are offered to help educate, not to provide specific legal advice. They are not your lawyers.

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Comes thread | 155 comments | Create New Account
Comments belong to whoever posts them. Please notify us of inappropriate comments.
Authored by: JK Finn on Tuesday, August 07 2012 @ 02:08 PM EDT
Corrections here. please. rite->right in title might be a
good idea.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Off Topic
Authored by: JK Finn on Tuesday, August 07 2012 @ 02:09 PM EDT
Things not about the long awaited chap 7 here, please.

[ Reply to This | # ]

News Picks
Authored by: JK Finn on Tuesday, August 07 2012 @ 02:12 PM EDT
Discussions about the news picks should go here. Please use
the title of the news as the title of a new thread and add a
link to the news item for when the news scrolls out of scope.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Comes thread
Authored by: JK Finn on Tuesday, August 07 2012 @ 02:14 PM EDT
Transcriptions of Comes exhibits here, please.
Format as html but post as as plain text to ease copying for

[ Reply to This | # ]

Red Dress Thread.
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 07 2012 @ 02:21 PM EDT

[ Reply to This | # ]

Far do the Mighty Fall
Authored by: argee on Tuesday, August 07 2012 @ 02:25 PM EDT
It seems, that we are on the brink of seeing this
sad saga come to an end.

To IBM: You can't even win an apology, so just throw in all
sorts of delays and make them suffer.


[ Reply to This | # ]

Clawback time?
Authored by: JK Finn on Tuesday, August 07 2012 @ 02:25 PM EDT

So... would this be time for some of the debtors to challenge the decision to go for a Chapter 11 Trustee instead of a Chapter 7 Trustee in the first place?
It's not as if there's been any visible attempt to maintain the carcass as a going concern during the Cahn reign.

JK Finn

[ Reply to This | # ]

That Court
Authored by: mexaly on Tuesday, August 07 2012 @ 02:43 PM EDT
I did not have legal relations with that court, Judge Gross.

IANAL, but I watch actors play lawyers on high-definition television.
Thanks to our hosts and the legal experts that make Groklaw great.

[ Reply to This | # ]

SCO Files for Chapter 7: "There is no reasonable chance of 'rehabilitation'"
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 07 2012 @ 02:47 PM EDT
I came to see a red dress :)

[ Reply to This | # ]

Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 07 2012 @ 02:51 PM EDT

I don't think that this is over. Even if the court does Chapter Seven the
company, and kill the TSCOG litigation, someone else will try the same

Linux and the other free software projects are hugely valuable, and the
scam artists will keep trying to steal them.


[ Reply to This | # ]

Reality check
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 07 2012 @ 03:19 PM EDT
"Did you ever think you'd see this day?"

Uhhhmmmm... yessss... all part of Plan B.

SCO was toast the minute IBM called their bluff and didn't buy them out (Plan
A). Since then its been nothing but a carnival ride of dubious 'bankruptcy',
'partners', 'asset sales', 'reorganizations', etc, all with the sole purpose of
dragging the inevitable out as long as possible while draining the coffers and
removing all the perpetrators from the picture. So we end up with Cahn, who is
profiting quite nicely from 'adminisrating' this farce, while having no culpable
connection the the events that started it, and who can point the finger at Judge
Gross when anyone questions. Yarro, McBride, and all their disciples and
accolytes, have crept off into the wildernes still proclaiming how they were

The filing says it best: " is in the best interests of the Debtors'
estates and its creditors...".

Ah, yes... all insiders, who are happy to write off a loss that just happens to
shield them from civil and criminal charges.

[ Reply to This | # ]

I wonder how boies schiller & flexner see it ...
Authored by: jsoulejr on Tuesday, August 07 2012 @ 03:21 PM EDT
Is it over for them or not? For all pj's comments about a lawyer's duty, was
it bs&f who got fleeced?

[ Reply to This | # ]

Does this mean IBM can't proceed?
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 07 2012 @ 03:24 PM EDT
If they go into Chapter 7, will that preclude IBM (and I guess Red Hat) from
proceeding with counter-claims? In fact, what's the status of that ... seems
like it has been a long time since we got an update on that.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Rehabilitation, shmehabilitation
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 07 2012 @ 03:37 PM EDT
The main creditors, early on, recognized no chance for rehabilitation and filed
briefs in support of chapter 7 conversion while there was still a little cash
left. Too bad the judge can't be held liable for the continued sucking dry of
the residual value of the estate by leaving them in chapter 11, despite there
being no reasonable hope of rehabilitation.

I know attorneys can be sued for malpractice - can jugdes be sued for
malpractice? That would be a fun case to observe...

[ Reply to This | # ]

Authored by: artp on Tuesday, August 07 2012 @ 04:01 PM EDT
Or is it a dream? I know that I've been predicting it for
most of the last ten+ years. I don't think that IBM will let
Microsoft get away with this. They have too much bad blood
between them, and Microsoft has scored too many hits and
gotten away with it. Besides, the computing ecology needs a
good cleaning.

I would REALLY like to see IBM proceed to gather evidence to
help them "pierce the veil" and get at the manipulators who
set this farce up in the first place. Microsoft in
particular, along with their madcap gang. They could start
with a plea to preserve the records of the company for
further legal proceedings.

After all, Microsoft still has $70 billion to play with.
That could do a lot of damage on the way down. As we are
seeing in the Android legal battles going on.

It would add a nice twist to the triumvirate of
Apple/Microsoft/Google with their $50 billion or so apiece,
and might add some sanity to the battle, as well as some
much needed assistance to the good guys.

Userfriendly on WGA server outage:
When you're chained to an oar you don't think you should go down when the galley
sinks ?

[ Reply to This | # ]

SCO Files for Chapter 7: "There is no reasonable chance of 'rehabilitation'"
Authored by: jvillain on Tuesday, August 07 2012 @ 04:16 PM EDT
One more nail. What has it been eight, nine years of our lives we are never
getting back? Thanks PJ et al for doing so, so much to help us understand it
all. Well most of it. Some of it is just beyond comprehension.

[ Reply to This | # ]

SCO Files for Chapter 7: so who gets the company records ?
Authored by: nola on Tuesday, August 07 2012 @ 04:21 PM EDT
Who gets the records?

There should be a lot of evidence in there about which companies
and individuals funded this right from the start.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Is this a pj or Mark article?
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 07 2012 @ 04:39 PM EDT
This sounds like pj, I just missed the tag in the title.

-- Alma

[ Reply to This | # ]

SCO Files for Chapter 7: "There is no reasonable chance of 'rehabilitation'"
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 07 2012 @ 04:47 PM EDT
Talk about a dead horse whipping a dead horse... How come
these boneheads at SCO are still conscious enough to breath?

[ Reply to This | # ]

SCO Files for Chapter 7: HA Ha!
Authored by: SilverWave on Tuesday, August 07 2012 @ 05:04 PM EDT
I cannot possibly express the depths of my loathing for SCO of the ppl behind

So lets just go with HA ha!


RMS: The 4 Freedoms
0 run the program for any purpose
1 study the source code and change it
2 make copies and distribute them
3 publish modified versions

[ Reply to This | # ]

Still wonder why no criminal charges
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 07 2012 @ 05:44 PM EDT
How can this not be stock market fraud? McBride and company
very clearly lied to the public about the strength of their
"SCO Source" claims, resulting in a big run-up in their
stock price. Their own experts told them early on that they
had no or very little case, but McBride was busy trumpeting
to the public about "deep divers from the MIT math
department" that had uncovered irrefutable proof that Linux
was stolen from SCO's Unix.

Put it this way - is it legal to knowingly make false
statements to attract investors? I don't think so, and I
have a hard time seeing how anyone could deny that SCO did
exactly that.

[ Reply to This | # ]

A few thoughts
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 07 2012 @ 05:51 PM EDT
First, it was *GREAT* to see that red dress. Brought a big smile to my face.

Second, BSF is on the hook for the IBM case, whether or not they get paid a
dime... but what about expenses? The lawyers are free, but who pays the
expenses? BSF? Cahn? The estate? (But the estate doesn't have any money -
OK, it has $100K - and who's going to lend money to a company in Chapter 7?)

Third, I think we're going to look back at this and decide that this wasn't the
end. The end was when Novell won their case. This is the epilog, which we're
going to skip over in our memories because it's really long-drawn-out and
boring. The fireworks have been over for a long time.

Fourth, going forward. I'm going to repeat something that I've said before.
Gandhi said, "First they ignore you. Then they laugh at you. Then they
fight you. Then you win." We're at "then they fight you".
There are three ways they might fight us - head-to-head competition, lockout,
and legal. FLOSS is doing fine at head-to-head competition, so no fear there.
Lockout is something we've got to keep an eye on (secure boot, but also things
like the ability to buy a PC without paying the Microsoft tax). But lately the
war has been on the legal front. Linux won the copyright battle, and I don't
think copyright can be used to assail many other FLOSS projects. The only other
battlefront left is patents; when we win there, we've won.


[ Reply to This | # ]

SCO Files for Chapter 7: "There is no reasonable chance of 'rehabilitation'" ~pj
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 07 2012 @ 05:58 PM EDT
A solvent company is allowed to enter bankruptcy.

5 years later, a shell with no money does not
pay the original debtors.

Not a good advertisement for US bankruptcy law.

[ Reply to This | # ]

SCO et al true to form to the very end...
Authored by: digger53 on Tuesday, August 07 2012 @ 06:15 PM EDT
Pond scum.

Here's wishing IBM gets to pierce the corporate veil and fatally torpedo the SCO conspirators ... and all of its allies. SCO et alia delenda est!

Great to see that red dress!!

[ Reply to This | # ]

No celebration for me.
Authored by: reiisi on Tuesday, August 07 2012 @ 07:02 PM EDT
I saw the ship going down and thought, what a waste.

I now the ship under the water and think, what a waste.

The people who scuttled it for no good purpose have mostly (RIP, Robert, and
Val) escaped. I can hope they will change their ways.

But witnessing this kind of destruction has never been easy for me to celebrate.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Are Unix copyrights relevant any more?
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 07 2012 @ 07:30 PM EDT
Just rambling thoughts on Unix.

Are IBM and HP and other Unix vendors worried about Unix copyrights any more?
How relevant are they? How can you tell if you owe copyright royalties on Unix
(not intended to be a trick question or punchline bait)?

Curious to know why one entity (Novell) owns the copyrights and another (The
Open Group) owns the trademark. Does that happen a lot in other industries?

Now that Novell has the copyrights, and Attachmate has Novell, what happens
next? Hard to imagine some patent troll not seeing a litigation opportunity in
buying the Unix copyrights, then holding IBM, HP, etc., for ransom.

[ Reply to This | # ]

At what point did the bankruptcy trustee become complicit in the theft?
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 07 2012 @ 07:46 PM EDT
The courts ruled that the money was converted (stolen), and that it never was SCO's money.

Yet the bankruptcy trustee continued the theft.

What part of bankruptcy law required/permitted this?

What would have happened if the trustee, using common sense would have said "Oh, this money is stolen and never was SCO's in the first place", I will return it to its rightfull owners immeadiately?

[ Reply to This | # ]

SCO Files for Chapter 7: "There is no reasonable chance of 'rehabilitation'" ~pj
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 07 2012 @ 09:13 PM EDT
The chapter 11 trustee didn't pay any of sco debt that I can
see. He appears to have just kept it up long enough to feed
his people from the corpse till there was nothing left to
pay real debts. How is that in any way doing a good job? He
didn't save the company and he didn't pay any of the
companies debts. That's a fail all around isn't it?

One thing I have gained from this is a complete lack of
respect for the mechanisms around chapter 11.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Congrats PJ
Authored by: snakebitehurts on Wednesday, August 08 2012 @ 01:50 AM EDT
We have waited a long time for this. But we don't have Judge Gross' official
ruling on Chapter 7 yet.

I REALLY want to be at the last hearing for the end/death/burial of SCO.

Is there a simple way to make them all show up at court again to say "we
surrender" ?

Congrats PJ. You earned the red dress moment. Been a long time coming (9 years

Geez, time flies .....


[ Reply to This | # ]

'Is that all there is? But we'll keep dancing'
Authored by: Ian Al on Wednesday, August 08 2012 @ 04:55 AM EDT
There are no other assets in the Debtors' estates other than certain unfair competition and tortious interference claims asserted by the Debtors' estates against International Business Machines Corporation ("IBM")
I wouldn't disagree with that statement, but what about all the other stuff about IBM reneging on their SysV contract and climbing a secret ladder to dump millions of lines of SysV into Linux, not to mention dumping quantities of negative knowledge on to the interweb?

There were loads of complaints briefed, but never resolved by trial or summary judgement because SCO ran for the Bankruptcy hills with Novell's and the debtor's money.

I cannot see any judgement that reduces SCO claims for beeellions of dollars. The copyright element was all about the SysV confidentiality terms and not the copyright ownership.

Judge Cahn's opinion that there is a very high chance of winning against IBM because SCO have such a strong case, still stands uncontested in the courts.

If the Oracle v. Google opinion has weakened the SCO arguments then Cahn should say so or else it looks as though he is concealing tremendous value in the company in order to maximise his earnings from the administration.

Ha, ha!

Ian Al
Software Patents: It's the disclosed functions in the patent, stupid!

[ Reply to This | # ]

SCO Files for Chapter 7: "There is no reasonable chance of 'rehabilitation'" ~pj
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, August 08 2012 @ 07:12 AM EDT
That isn't a red dress, PJ, is it?

[ Reply to This | # ]

SCO Files for Chapter 7: "There is no reasonable chance of 'rehabilitation'" ~pj
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, August 09 2012 @ 01:27 PM EDT
who says prayer doesn't work? ;-)

[ Reply to This | # ]

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