Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, February 13 2013 @ 03:08 PM EST |
No Oracle shouldn't win.
We _have_ thought rationally about it, and it would upend software development
as we know it if they win.
That's where the emotion comes from -- after rationally analyzing it, we cannot
believe that Oracle could attempt to do that to the world.
If you think the emotion came first, and then we are rationalizing it, you're
completely wrong.
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Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, February 13 2013 @ 03:35 PM EST |
Sun sued Microsoft, not for making their own Java, but for calling it Java when
it broke the spec. Microsoft had to change the name.
Sun already said they had no problem with Android, because it was called
Android, not Java.
And their example of Ann Droid stealing Harry Potter fails for the same
reason... Ann called it Harry Potter: Google didn't call it Java.
Sorry Larry, but David is simply stringing you along for $$$$. Ask Ralph Yarro
how that turns out.[ Reply to This | Parent | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, February 13 2013 @ 03:36 PM EST |
Ora Claw wants to publish a bestseller. So she does and copyrights page
turning, page numbers, hard covers, individual words, letters, etc.[ Reply to This | Parent | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, February 13 2013 @ 03:48 PM EST |
What is the law about copying outlines? Suppose I copied the
outline (headings, subheadings, etc.) of an entry in the
Encyclopedia Britannica but filled in the body text and then
posted the result on Wikipedia. Would that violate copyright?[ Reply to This | Parent | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, February 13 2013 @ 03:56 PM EST |
>Google did make a 1:1 copy of the entire Java API, all interfaces and
libraries.
No. The interface (in other words, the formal part of the language definition),
Google DID copy. That would be the API. The libraries, Google did NOT copy.
The difference is extremely important. The interfaces, being solely functional,
aren't copyrighteable anyway--and had been widely copied (by every single Java
programmer on earth, as well as by multiple independent Java implementations) --
all with Sun's blessing. There's even an ISO standard of them!
And Microsoft did NOT do the same thing. (1) They DID copy (and change) the
libraries (for which as it happens they had a license (2) they DID call the
incompatible result Java (which was a violation of the license.
With the wrong facts, you are going to draw the wrong conclusions regardless of
your emotional state.[ Reply to This | Parent | # ]
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Authored by: dio gratia on Wednesday, February 13 2013 @ 05:27 PM EST |
Without supporting citations of statute or case law the basis for your opinion
can be neither supported or refuted.
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Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, February 13 2013 @ 05:42 PM EST |
I wonder if Oracle software is that vulnerable to hackers.
"The hundreds or thousands of career Sun developers who wrote these
packages are
employed by Oracle now and are still maintaining," OR NOT.[ Reply to This | Parent | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, February 13 2013 @ 06:34 PM EST |
They sued Microsoft for taking a contract, then changing the Java interfaces and
still calling the product Java.
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Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, February 13 2013 @ 06:38 PM EST |
I agree with you that companies are not people, unfortunately, the Unites States
Supreme Court says they are.
That's not the point. The point is that there is longstanding legal
interpretation that says interfaces cannot be copyrighted. Maybe you think they
should be, but you do not get to change the law. If you care about tech, you
had better hope that the court's do not ever agree with you, because sofware
development is impossible if interfaces are copyrighted.
I dare you to write me a Java program that does anything without copying parts
of what is in the Java header files.
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Authored by: PJ on Thursday, February 14 2013 @ 04:01 AM EST |
Google emphatically did not do that. You
read the brief, I take it, and believed it.
We also have a rule on Groklaw, namely that
if you work for a company an article is about,
you need to say so.[ Reply to This | Parent | # ]
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Authored by: Steve Martin on Thursday, February 14 2013 @ 06:34 AM EST |
Google
did make a 1:1 copy of the entire Java API, all
interfaces and
libraries.
That is not what they alleged
at
trial:
In developing Android, Google
employees and
contractors deliberately copied the 37
Java
API design specifications,
containing the fundamental
structure for much of the Java core
class
libraries.
(emphasis added) They did not claim that
Google
copied "all interfaces and libraries".
The
hundreds or thousands of career
Sun developers who wrote these packages
are
employed by Oracle now and are still maintaining,
improving, and expanding
the
very very large Java OpenJDK Project.
And the very
claim that Oracle is employing some of
these developers to maintain the OpenJDK
project (a body
of code distributed
under GPLv2) doesn't raise a
conflict in your thesis that Oracle deserves
to prevail on
copyright infringement? --- "When I say something, I put
my name next to it." -- Isaac Jaffe, "Sports Night" [ Reply to This | Parent | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, February 14 2013 @ 03:02 PM EST |
APIs cannot be copyrighted... period.
It's already been declared as such in EU.
<Opinion - not fact - protected by 1st Ammendment> Once the judges spend
all the money they've been bribed with here, it will be ruled the same in the
U.S.
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Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, February 14 2013 @ 10:26 PM EST |
Well, it is your opinion. That it seems to be supported by mistaken
assertions might trouble you.
It was not 1:1.
Google actually had hired many of the engineers behind java. Sun stopped
being a fun place and so folks moved on to the company that was doing the
cool new. Talent does that.
Before java had boxing and parameterized collections, I made an IntList
class which was variable in length. I implemented some of the List
interface.
So where exactly did I get my permission to do so if the Oracle theory is
valid? What of the wisdom in programming to interfaces? It falls apart if
every interface is a work of creative expression as then every program is a
derivative work requiring a license from those who copy and build upon
language and library interfaces. Programmers know the hard work, the
place where bugs become dragons, is in the implementation code and that
was different, though there was that bit of code written by the Google
engineer who had written it for Sun back when he was their employee.
Indeed, it was a simple guard that checked if an array access was out of
range. Not really code that would look different if two capable programmers
wrote it.
Java's original libraries in organization and signature borrowed from
SmallTalk, Objective C, and C++.
My opinion is that the parties should have worked something out. Google
did climb on top of the shoulders of a giant. But, it didn't happen and blame
has to be shared equally that a deal didn't get done. I do not want Oracle's
argument to prevail because I think the licensing claims it will produce will
quickly rise to second place behind patents as things that make
programming no fun.[ Reply to This | Parent | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, February 15 2013 @ 07:56 AM EST |
Without them, folks around here are going to conclude (perhaps rightly)
that you are just trolling.[ Reply to This | Parent | # ]
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